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ironman2012
Senior Member
Chinese
- Mar 17, 2017
- #1
Hi,
Victorian neogothic architecture enjoyed a flowering in Manchester too, most notably in the great spired almost fairy-tale Town Hall, a sort of cathedral to commerce that exudes confidence and prosperity yet is not without delight in agniloquence for its own sake.
(This comes from newsweek.com Howard Jacobson Reflects on Manchester, England by Howard Jacobson On 4/9/12.)
What does the blue part mean? What does 'to' here mean?
Thanks in advance!
R
Retired-teacher
Senior Member
British English
- Mar 17, 2017
- #2
It may have been better as "cathedral of commerce". It means that the town hall, being large and ornate, was an important building for commerce in the same way that a cathedral is for religion.
GreenWhiteBlue
Banned
The City of New York
USA - English
- Mar 17, 2017
- #3
I disagree with Retired-teacher. A cathedral of commerce would be a building where commercial activities take place inside, such as a bank or a stock exchange, or the headquarters of a company. The term is most closely associated with the Woolworth Building in New York City because of its neo-Gothic detail and its commercial purpose. A cathedral to commerce, on the other hand, would be a building that honors or commemorates or celebrates commerce, in the same way you might say that Versailles is a monument to the pride of Louis XIV. Note also that the Town Hall is a government building, and not a building where commerce takes place -- but since Manchester is a leading commercial city, the Town Hall celebrates the success of the city's businessmen.
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pob14
Senior Member
Central Illinois
American English
- Mar 17, 2017
- #4
I'm not sure I agree with GWB. Last Christmas Eve, I attended services at The Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. As far as I could tell, no conceptions, immaculate or otherwise, took place inside. It commemorates the IC.
Keith Bradford
Senior Member
Brittany, NW France
English (Midlands UK)
- Mar 17, 2017
- #5
True, but GWB's analysis is nevertheless correct. In addition, Manchester Town Hall is a neo-Gothic construction inspired (like much Victorian architecture) by the great cathedrals of the late Middle Ages. Thus:
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pob14
Senior Member
Central Illinois
American English
- Mar 17, 2017
- #6
I see the distinction being drawn, and maybe it's just personal taste, but I can't get my head around a "cathedral to" something.
Dale Texas
Senior Member
El Paso, TX (raised PA, ex New Yorker)
English USA
- Mar 17, 2017
- #7
I suppose it is similar to saying something is a "monument to..."
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boozer
Senior Member
Bulgaria
Bulgarian
- Mar 17, 2017
- #8
pob14 said:
Last Christmas Eve, I attended services at The Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception. As far as I could tell, no conceptions, immaculate or otherwise, took place inside.
One would expect a certain degree of discreetness when such things are done in a cathedral, Pob, which should explain your failure to observe them.
I think Dale is right about this being similar in meaning to "monument to...", though a cathedral has the added suggestion of sanctity. I looked at some Google images of the Manchester Town Hall and I do think the building is reminiscent of a cathedral. (Oh, KB already said that and has even uploaded images )
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ironman2012
Senior Member
Chinese
- Mar 18, 2017
- #9
GreenWhiteBlue said:
I disagree with Retired-teacher. A cathedral of commerce would be a building where commercial activities take place inside, such as a bank or a stock exchange, or the headquarters of a company. The term is most closely associated with the Woolworth Building in New York City because of its neo-Gothic detail and its commercial purpose. A cathedral to commerce, on the other hand, would be a building that honors or commemorates or celebrates commerce, in the same way you might say that Versailles is a monument to the pride of Louis XIV. Note also that the Town Hall is a government building, and not a building where commerce takes place -- but since Manchester is a leading commercial city, the Town Hall celebrates the success of the city's businessmen.
I feel 'cathedral' here seems to lose the meaning 'the main church of a district, under the care of a bishop'. It can refer to a building that has a church style, like the neo-Gothic detail, doesn't it?
GreenWhiteBlue
Banned
The City of New York
USA - English
- Mar 18, 2017
- #10
ironman2012 said:
I feel 'cathedral' here seems to lose the meaning 'the main church of a district, under the care of a bishop'. It can refer to a building that has a church style, like the neo-Gothic detail, doesn't it?
Absolutely. As I noted above, the Woolworth Building in New York has had the nickname "the Cathedral of Commerce" almost from the time it was built. (It was completed in 1913, and S. Parkes Cadman published a booklet about it with that title in 1916.) Here are some pictures of the Woolworth Building, so you can see what is meant.
The exterior, taken back when it was the tallest building in the world:
Detail of the top:
The entrance lobby:
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